MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Groups Home  |  My Groups  |  Language  |  Help  
 
Rush versus RealityContains "mature" content, but not necessarily adult.RushversusReality@groups.msn.com 
  
What's New
  Join Now
  Home  
  Message Boards  
  Rush v. Real Time  
  Rules of Conduct  
  RvR EXTRA July 10  
  RvR on Hiatus  
  RvR (Dec)  
  RvR (Nov b)  
  RvR (Nov a)  
  RvR (Oct b)  
  RvR (Oct a)  
  RvR (Sep)  
  RvR (Aug b)  
  RvR (Aug a)  
  RvR (July d)  
  RvR (July c)  
  RvR (July b)  
  RvR (July a)  
  RvR Jan - Jun '02  
  RvR 2001 (July-Oct)  
  RvR 2001 (Jan-June)  
  Documents  
  Search Engine  
  Debate-a-Base  
  D-a-B Messages  
  Subject Index  
  RvR Blogs  
  Audio  
  
  
  Tools  
 
Rush v Reality

November 26, 2002
 
RUSH:  When a post-election CNN-USA Today Gallup poll found strong sentiment against a US attack on Iraq—even if Iraq violated the recent UN Security Council resolution—unless the US first obtained specific United Nations approval for military action, Rush was not only discouraged by the apparent reluctance of those polled to support an immediate invasion, he was dumbfounded by their ignorance of current events. Rush set the record straight, beginning with a quote from the poll findings.

"Americans are not ready to support an immediate US-led invasion of Iraq at the first sign that Iraq has failed to comply with UN Resolution 1441. Instead, by almost a 2-1 majority, Americans say the US should first go back to the United Nations and get specific authorization for military action.’ What would that be? UN Resolution 1442? For those of you who participated in this poll, the specific authorization for military action is in the current resolution, number 1441, and there are the words 'material breach,' and if there is a material breach then—there's a material breach!—and it's—it's—it's—you know, here goes the green light for military action! It's already in there, my friends."  [Listen to Rush / Documents / Nov 26 UN Resolution]

REALITY: Did UN Resolution 1441, passed by the Security Council on November 8, 2002, authorize military action by the US or any other entity if Iraq committed a "material breach" of the UN’s demands? If you believe Rush, it did indeed. However, if you rely on the resolution itself, or on the words of a key Bush Administration spokesperson, you may reach a different conclusion.

Let’s begin with UN Resolution 1441 itself, the complete text of which can be found at CNN's web site http://asia.cnn.com/2002/US/11/08/resolution.text/

The sections pertaining to consequences for Iraqi non-cooperation ("material breach") begin at paragraph four:

4. (The Security Council) Decides that false statements or omissions in the declarations submitted by Iraq pursuant to this resolution and failure by Iraq at any time to comply with, and cooperate fully in the implementation of, this resolution shall constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations and will be reported to the Council for assessment in accordance with paragraphs 11 and or 12 below;

Therefore, if Iraq violates the dictates and intent of the resolution, what happens? War? Not exactly. According to the resolution, any material breach "will be reported to the (Security) Council for assessment…." And what does that assessment involve? Paragraph 11 and 12:

11. Directs the Executive Chairman of UNMOVIC and the Director General of the IAEA to report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities, as well as any failure by Iraq to comply with its disarmament obligations, including its obligations regarding inspections under this resolution;

12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 or 11 above, in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security;

So, a material breach of UN Resolution 1441 by Iraq doesn’t authorize military action after all. Clearly, the resolution calls for precisely what the ignorant respondents to the CNN-USA Today poll favored—a return to the UN Security Council for further deliberation ("consider the situation") before any action, military or otherwise, is authorized.

Additional evidence on what UN Resolution 1441 really authorized can be found in the words of White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, who was interviewed by NBC’s Tim Russet on Meet the Press on Sunday, November 10, 2002. From the show’s transcript:

MR. RUSSERT: If you read the language of the U.N. resolution, it’s a little murky. It says that if Saddam says no, this will be, "reported to Security Council for assessment," end quote, which the Security Council will convene immediately to consider the situation. Now, the United States had wanted very much the resolution to say, "If he says no, he then faces immediate military consequences." Why this kind of murky language?

MR. CARD: Well, the United States and our allies are prepared to act. The United Nations recognizes the gravity of the situation. They’ve called for Saddam Hussein to disarm. They’ve called for him to comply with all of the resolutions of the United Nations. If he doesn’t comply, he will be in material breach. If he’s in material breach, there will be serious consequences and the United Nations will consider those consequences, but the United States and Great Britain and our allies are prepared to act, and Saddam Hussein has just got to recognize that he should be saying yes and he should comply to every demand that’s on him.

MR. RUSSERT: If the United Nations says, "Well, yes, he didn’t comply, but let’s give him some more time. Let’s look at this a little further. Let’s study this matter some more," the United States has the authority and the ability, in your mind, to act unilaterally.

MR. CARD: We have the authority by what the United States House and Senate did. We have the authority by the president designed to protect and defend the United States of America. We have our allies standing together and we also know the United Nations has said, "This has got to be done. And if you don’t do it, there will be serious consequences."

MR. RUSSERT: But we don’t need further action by the U.N. Security Council to launch a military invasion if we decide that’s necessary?

MR. CARD: The U.N. can meet and discuss, but we don’t need their permission. http://www.msnbc.com/news/833199.asp

The US position, clearly stated by the White House Chief of Staff, is that the authority to invade Iraq comes not from the UN, but from the US Congress. Further, Card admits that if Saddam commits a material breach "there will be serious consequences and the United Nations will consider those consequences." In other words, further discussions, not a green light for military action.

Finally, by concluding that "we don’t need their (UN) permission" to invade Iraq, Andrew Card was admitting that UN Resolution 1441 does not, in fact, give the US permission to begin military action.

Rush Limbaugh: breach bum.


November 19, 2002

RUSH:  America's Truth Detector is not one to get excited about environmental disasters, real or imagined. When environmentalists predictably sounded dire warnings following the sinking 130 miles off the Spanish coast of a Bahamian-flagged oil tanker with most of its 70,000 tons of fuel oil still on board, Rush had a profound, yet deceivingly simple question for these hand wringers.

"Listen to this, I’m just reading this story here about this oil tanker that’s doomed—split in half—and sunk off the coast of Spain. Listen—listen to this: (reads from a news account) ‘An environmentalist warned that the wreckage would be like a time bomb on the ocean floor, some 11,800 feet down.’ See, some of the oil tanks in this tanker are intact, not all of the oil has spilled. But it might! Oh, it might! We’re all going to die! Baah hah hah! I mean, this is what they’re trying to ferment on everybody. So, ok: what became of the oil in the Titanic? What became of th—I mean, that was down 12,000 uh, 14,000 feet. Who died from the oil in the Titanic? It wasn’t in port—I mean, there’s still a lot of fuel oil on board. You know wha—wha—I would guarantee you that if those oil tanks leak open or whatever, the—the—the ocean 12,000 feet deep’s gonna eat that oil so fast it’ll never reach the surface, and if it does it’ll reach the surface in drops! Ahhh, it gets tiresome, you know, I—I know the nature of the program is cyclical, but this is how the liberals do it—they just keep pounding us, they just keep coming back with this stuff more and more and they wear people out." [Listen to Rush / Documents / Nov 19 Titanic Oil Spill]

REALITY: Rush was absolutely correct when he said that no one died because oil leaked from the Titanic’s fuel tanks. One possible explanation might be that the Titanic was not fueled by oil. 

As anyone who saw the blockbuster movie will recall, dozens of stokers worked around the clock shoveling coal in the Titanic’s massive boiler room. For those who didn’t see the movie, a Canadian government (Nova Scotia) website provides a Fact Sheet on the Titanic’s specifications:

  • Engines: 2 reciproctating 4 cylinder, triple expansion, direct - acting, inverted engines: 30,000hp 77 rpm. 1 low pressure Parsons turbine: 16,000hp 165rpm
  • Propellers: 3 ; Center turbine: 17 feet ; Left/Right wings: 23 feet 6 inches
  • Boilers: 29 (24 double ended boilers and 5 single ended boilers)
  • Furnaces: 159 providing a total heating surface of 144,142 sq. feet
  • Fuel requirement: 825 tons of coal per day

http://www.cbv.ns.ca/sstudies/Titanic/FACTS8.htm

A British website dedicated to the history of the Titanic confirms that the ship was coal driven: But due to a disruptive coal strike that had spread throughout the United Kingdom, many ships were laid up due to the lack of fuel, and consequently, over 17,000 men were left without work in Southampton alone. Even Titanic was indirectly affected by the strike: she had to top-up her own coal bunkers with coal acquired from other IMM vessels laid-up in Southampton…. http://www.rmstitanic.co.uk/titanic_titanic_-_southampton.shtml

Rush Limbaugh: oil wet.

Notice: Microsoft has no responsibility for the content featured in this group. Click here for more info.
  Try MSN Internet Software for FREE!
    MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail  |  Search
Feedback  |  Help  
  ©2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.  Legal  Advertise  MSN Privacy